それはカメラマンという職業柄か？ もともとの性格か？ 雑誌の撮影現場では多くを語らず、なるべく存在を消そうとしている、ように見える中村寛史さん。先日そんな彼がこっそりと近づいてきてインタビューをして欲しいと言う。聞けば、大阪で個展が決定し写真集も作る、といつになく気合が入っている様子。ということで写真家・中村寛史とは？ いわく「見えないものを撮る」、そんな街の余白を浮かび上がらせるような作風はどこから？  中村寛史の歴史＝中史を振り返っていただきましょう。

Is it because of my profession as a photographer? Or is it his personality? Hiroshi Nakamura does not say much at magazine photo shoots, and seems to try to be as invisible as possible. The other day, he approached me stealthily and asked me to interview him. He seemed to be more enthusiastic than ever about his upcoming solo exhibition in Osaka and the production of a photo book. So, what is the photographer Hiroshi Nakamura? Where does he get his style of "photographing the invisible" and bringing to light the margins of the city?  Let's take a look back at the history of Hiroshi Nakamura.

ーー出身は滋賀県ですよね？

彦根です。

ーー彦根はどんな町です？

おもしろいことがあっても根付かない、しょうもない町です。

ーー映画や音楽が好きだったんですよね。学生時代は『スタジオボイス』とか読んだり？

彦根に『スタジオボイス』は届いてなかったです。

ーー音楽は？

周りでミスチルが流行り出しても、自分は洋楽を聴いてて。でも『MAX』とかのオムニバスのCDに入ってる洋楽を聴いてただけで。ブラーとかオアシスとかグリーンデイとか。田舎はそんなもんです。まだインターネットもないし。

ーー学校での思い出にはどんなことが？

中学の美術の時間に、みんなが絵を描いてるのに自分はコラージュを取り入れたりして。すごい！って先生やみんなに褒められたり。

ーーなかなか前衛的ですね。

手法だけで、なにもすごくないと自分では思ってました。でも高校に入っても美術の先生に気に入られて。進路相談もして。デッサンも習いに行きました。

ーー美大を目指して？

そうです。高校２年のとき、１年間くらいは通ってたんですけどね。山本さんっていうおばちゃんに教えてもらってて。でも無理やなと。下手過ぎて。アメトークの絵心ない芸人みたいな感じ。

ーー犬にまゆげ描くような。

パースとか全然分かってなかった。

ーーそれで写真の方へ？

写真はボタン押すだけやから、いけるやろ？って高校生が考えるような。大阪芸大の写真学科に推薦で受かって。成安（造形大）は落ちたんですけど、もう勉強したくないのでそのまま大芸へ。


ーー大阪芸大の写真学科はみんな写真家を志す感じなんですか？

いや、自分も含めて写真をまったく知らない子もいました。当時はヒロミックスが流行ってたのでその影響だけで入ってきた子とかも。とにかく、かなり倍率が低かったので芸大ってちょっとかっこいいなと思ってる人が入ってくる感じです。

ーーそれでカメラを購入すると？

大学に入る前に、彦根の写真屋さんで安い中古のカメラを買いました。機種とかまったく分からず。それが入学してから、めちゃくちゃグレードの低いカメラやったことが分かったので恥ずかしかったですね。

ーー当時はどんな写真が好きだったんです？

当時は佐内正史がくるりのジャケットを撮ったり、自分の中に音楽と一緒に写真が入ってきたので、そこに影響受けました。将来そういう風になれたらいいなと。

ーーほんとですか？

…いや、なにも考えてなかったです（笑）

ーー大学ではどんな写真を撮っていました？

まずはスナップで。学校の最寄りの喜志駅に住んでたので、そこからぶらぶら出掛けて撮ってましたね。

ーー梅田や心斎橋に行ったり？

いや、街じゃない方に。自然の方へ。

ーー田舎から大阪に出てきたら、都会で撮影するぞ！とか考えそうですが。

そういうガッツは無い人間なので。それに学校の近くだと友達に会うと恥ずかしいから、河内長野の方に行ったり。近つ飛鳥や古墳の方とか。

ーーおじいさんの趣味みたいですね。

消極的な性格なので。でも一回生の夏休みに何かしないといけない！と。ヒッチハイクで九州まで行きました。

ーーガッツ出しましたね。

やらなあかん！という気持ちだけはあって。意を決して。ダンボールに行き先を書いて。野宿しながら。

ーー青春ですね。

19歳なんで。でも、その時に撮った写真を大学の課題で出したら、一枚だけ彦根の写真を入れていたことで先生にめっちゃ怒られましたけどね。コンセプトにうるさい先生が多かったので。写真が良ければそれでいいやん？とは思ってましたけど。


ーー写真家の佐伯慎亮さんも同じ学科ですよね？

学年はひとつ上ですね。写真学科の職員室のガラス戸に佐伯くんの写真が飾ってて、それがめちゃくちゃかっこよくて衝撃を受けました。大学で初めて写真にしっくりきたのは佐伯くんの写真です。学校で会ったことはなかったですけど。僕は２回生のときに辞めてるんで。

ーーなぜ大学を辞めたんです？

父親の紹介で、ある写真家の弟子というか雑用をやり始めて。そこに通い始めた頃、何も知らないのに“仕事取ってきたから、おまえ撮ってこい”っていきなり言われたんです。フリーペーパーに載る料理の撮影で。その写真がクライアントの人にも褒められたりして。それが学校で勉強してることより楽しくなってきて。

ーーそれで辞めると。

２回生の時に辞めて、その写真家のところに毎日通うようになるんですけど、フリーペーパーが廃刊になって…。その写真家は昔気質の恐い人で、めちゃくちゃ怒られてました。雑用ばかりで技術的なことは何も学んでないです。毎日、夕方になったらジャック・ダニエルを買いに行かされてましたね。

ーージャック・ダニエル担当。

毎日怒られ過ぎて、自分がよく分からなくなってましたね。あと、その人は賭け事が好きで強いんです。負けたらお酒を奢らされて。お酒強くないんですけど、朝まで飲んでクリスタ長堀でゲロ吐いたり。辞めたいけど“辞めます”っていう勇気はなくて。１年くらい通った時に“辞めろ”と言われてホッとしました。

ーー良かったですね。

それから天王寺の居酒屋でバイトを始めました。アポロビルの白木屋。そこの白木屋は関西で売り上げが１位の店で、バイトに命を懸けてるような人がいっぱいいて。基本的に自分はバイトとかクビになるタイプの人間なので、その人たちにもめちゃくちゃ怒られましたね。


ーー怒られてばっかりですね。

27歳くらいまではよく怒られてましたね。知らんおっさんにもなぜか怒られたり。

ーー怒られるのはなぜだと思います？

今考えたら、自分がいろいろ甘かったんですね。

ーーそこからは？

また別の写真家の人に気に入られて雑用してました。前と同じようなことになるんですけど…。

ーーまた？

怒られてましたね。なるべく厳しいことを避けて生きていきたい、という気持ちが逆に引き寄せてた気がします。

ーー自分の作品は撮っていました？

その頃、心斎橋のFUKUGAN GALLERYでいろんな人と仲良くなって。そこからアート的な活動の方に。展示をやらせてもらったり。

ーー充実してきた？

充実してきたんですけど、限界も見えてきて。

ーー限界？

モチベーションが下がってきて。スナップを撮り続けていくことは無理やと思って。27歳くらいの時に北海道から沖縄まで行っていろんなものを見て撮ったんですけど、なんか写真家であることの言い訳ができない感じになってきて。賞を獲ったわけでもないし。

ーー写真を仕事ではなく趣味にしようとは思わなかった？

自分はサラリーマンとかできないなと思って。それに毎日カメラを触る仕事に就かないと写真を辞めてしまうと思って。それでスタイリストをやってる彼女の紹介でスタジオで働くことに。そのスタジオには７～８年いましたね。

ーーそこでもまた怒られました？

怒られましたけど、１対１の関係じゃなくてアシスタント同士で相談することができたので良かった。

ーー良かったです。

そこでやっと写真の技術の基礎も学びました。ファッション誌のポートレイト写真の面白さを知ったり。しんどい仕事だったんですけど、休みの日にも練習するようになって。でも、このままアシスタントのままで終わるのはいやだったので、独立しました。

ーーそれが2015年。

技術的なことを勉強したおかげて余計な心配をすることもなくなったし、どう撮ればいいのか？が分かるようになったこともあって。どれだけ自分らしい写真が撮れるか？ それに雑誌で誰が撮ったか？が気になるような写真を撮りたかったので独立しました。


ーー自分らしい写真とは？

自分の中に絵は無いけど、アクシデントというか想定していないことが面白いと思っていて。イメージを形にするのではなくて、見えていないものを撮りたい。その衝動を大事にしたいというか。

ーー撮るときは出会い頭の衝動ありきで？

撮るときは後のことを何も考えてなくて。例えば、変なおっさんがいたら撮るけど、なぜそこでシャッターを切るのか？ それがイコール写真だと考えていて。行為自体が写真というか。

ーーシャッターを切る・切らないの違いを後から考えてみたりします？ 

気になったらとりあえず。でも後から、この写真は良くないな、切らなくてもよかったな、と思うことも結構あります。経験値から悩んだ時に撮らないを選択することもよくあります。

ーーとりあえず撮る、けれど瞬間的に選択していると。

例えば、仕事の帰り道が２パターンあって、今日はどっちから帰るのか？ そんな選択も常に意識していて、撮る・撮らないも帰り道の選択も全部繋がっていて。この道を選んだから変なおっさんに会ったとか。

ーー予定されている写真展『中史』はいわば行為の軌跡？ 今回は書店での展示ですが、どんな写真展になりそうです？

軌跡とも言えますが、それよりはインスタレーション的な側面、展示する場所とうまく調和が取れたらいいなと思っています。

ーーちなみにSNSで見せることと展示の違いをどう考えています？

SNSで写真が微妙と言われても別にいいけど、展示で微妙と言われたら悲しい（笑）

ーー今回、なぜ写真集を作ろうと？

展覧会をやりましょう、と（LVDB BOOKSの）上林くんに声を掛けてもらって。でも、展示しようと思う写真を数枚を見せた時の反応が微妙で（笑）。写真集のようなボリュームで伝えないと満足してもらえないと思ったのが動機です（笑）。あと書店での展示なので、売れるかなと。写真集もインタビューもそうですけど、編集しながら、喋りながら、自分で自分のことを理解している側面があります。

ーーでは今回の写真展に向けてひとことコメントをお願いします。

サービス精神はこれまでで一番あります。友達がトートバッグやマグネットを作ってくれたり。友達、ありがとう！って感じ。

ーー周りが手伝いたくなる才能を持ってますね。

まず自分の周りにいる人に面白いと思ってもらう展示にしないとな、とは思ってます。

ーーあの写真家の方にもぜひ見に来て欲しいですね。

いや（笑）いいです。

ーYou are from Shiga Prefecture, aren't you?

Yes, Hikone.

ーWhat kind of town is Hikone?

It's a town where interesting things don't take root.

ーYou liked movies and music, didn't you? When you were a student, did you read "Studio Voice"?

There was no "Studio Voice" in Hikone.

ーWhat about music?

Even though Mistill was becoming popular around me, I was listening to Western music. But I was only listening to Western music on omnibus CDs like "MAX. Blur, Oasis, Green Day, and so on. That's how it was in the countryside. We didn't have the Internet yet.

ーWhat are some of your memories from school?

In junior high school, during art class, everyone was drawing pictures, but I was making collages. I was praised by the teachers and everyone else! and the teacher and everyone praised me.

ーThat's pretty avant-garde, isn't it?

I thought to myself that it was just a technique and nothing amazing. But when I entered high school, my art teacher liked me. He also helped me with my future career. I also went to study drawing.

ーAiming to go to art school?

Yes, I did. I went there for about a year in my second year of high school. I was taught by an old lady named Ms. Yamamoto. But I thought it was impossible. I was too bad at it. I was like that comedian on AMETOKU who doesn't know how to draw.

ーLike drawing eyebrows on a dog.

I didn't understand perspective at all.

ーIs that why you went into photography?

I was like a high school student thinking, "I can just push a button and take a picture, right? That's what high school students think. I was accepted to the photography department of Osaka University of Arts with a recommendation. I failed to get into Seian (University of Art and Design), but I didn't want to study anymore, so I went straight to Osaka University of Arts.

ーDoes everyone in the photography department at Osaka University of Arts seem to aspire to be a photographer?

No, there were kids who knew nothing about photography, including myself. At the time, Hiromix was very popular, so there were kids who came in just because of that influence. Anyway, the ratio of applicants was quite low, so it was like people who thought it would be kind of cool to go to an art college would come in.

ーIs that why you bought a camera?

Before I entered the university, I bought a cheap used camera at a photo shop in Hikone. I had no idea what model it was. After I entered the university, I was embarrassed to find out that it was a very low grade camera.

ーWhat kind of photography did you like at that time?

At the time, Masashi Sanai was taking pictures of Kururi's jackets, and photography was coming into my mind along with music, so I was influenced by that. I hoped to be like that in the future.

ーReally?

...No, I wasn't thinking about anything (laughs).

ーWhat kind of photographs did you take at university?

First of all, I took snapshots. I lived at Kishi station, which is the closest station to the school, so I would go out and take pictures from there.

ーDid you go to Umeda or Shinsaibashi?

No, I went somewhere other than the city. Toward nature.

ーIf you come to Osaka from the countryside, you might think, "I'm going to shoot in the city! I don't have that kind of guts.

I don't have that kind of guts. Besides, I would be embarrassed if I met my friends near my school, so I would go to Kawachinagano. Or I might go to Chikatsu Asuka or the Kofun area.

ーIt sounds like my grandfather's hobbies.

I have a passive personality. But I had to do something during the summer vacation of my freshman year! And I did. I hitchhiked to Kyushu.

ーYou were really gutsy about it.

I had to do something! I just had this feeling that I had to do it. I was determined. I wrote down where I was going on a piece of cardboard. While staying in the field.

ーThat's youth, isn't it?

I was 19 years old. However, when I submitted the photos I took at that time for a college assignment, I was really scolded by my teacher because I included only one photo of Hikone. Many of my teachers were very picky about the concept. I thought, "If the picture is good, that's all that matters, right? I thought, "If the picture is good enough, that's all that matters.

ーPhotographer Shinryo Saeki is in the same department, right?

He is one grade above me. I saw a picture of Mr. Saeki's on the glass door of the staff room of the photography department, and I was shocked by how cool it was. It was the first photo of Mr. Saeki's that made me feel comfortable with photography at university. I had never met him at school. I quit the university when I was a sophomore.

ーWhy did you quit university?

My father introduced me to a photographer, and I started working as an apprentice, or rather, doing odd jobs for him. When I started going to school there, I knew nothing about it, but I was suddenly told, "I've got a job for you, so go ahead and take pictures. It was a photo shoot of food for a free newspaper. The client praised my photos. It became more fun than studying at school.

ーSo that's why you quit.

I quit during my sophomore year and started going to see that photographer every day, but the free paper was discontinued.... The photographer was a scary man with an old-fashioned personality, and he was very angry with me. I did nothing but chores and learned nothing technical. Every evening, I was sent to buy Jack Daniels.

ーI was in charge of Jack Daniels.

I was so angry every day that I didn't know who I was anymore. Also, he was a strong betting man. If I lost, he would buy me drinks. I wasn't a strong drinker, but I would drink until morning and throw up at Crysta Nagahori. I wanted to quit, but I didn't have the courage to say "I quit." After about a year of working there, I was relieved when they told me to quit.

ーThat's great.

Then I started working part-time at an izakaya in Tennoji. Shiroki-ya in the Apollo Building. Shirokiya was the No. 1 selling tavern in the Kansai region, and there were many people who put their lives on the line for a part-time job. Basically, I am the type of person who gets fired from a part-time job, so I was very angry with those people.

ーYou are always getting angry.

I used to get angry a lot until I was about 27 years old. Even old men I didn't know would get mad at me for some reason.

ーWhy do you think you get angry?

Now that I think about it, I was naive in many ways.

ーWhat happened after that?

Another photographer took a liking to me, and I was doing chores. It would be the same as before...

ーAgain?

He was angry at me. I wanted to live my life by avoiding harsh things as much as possible, but I think I was attracting them in the opposite direction.

ーWere you making your own films?

Around that time, I became friends with many people at FUKUGAN GALLERY in Shinsaibashi. From there, I started to get involved in artistic activities. I was allowed to exhibit my work.

ーDid you become more fulfilled?

I was getting fulfilled, but I was also starting to see my limits.

ーLimits?

My motivation has decreased. When I was about 27 years old, I traveled from Hokkaido to Okinawa to see and photograph various things, but I felt like I had no excuse for being a photographer. It's not like I won any awards.

ーDid you ever think of making photography a hobby rather than a job?

I felt I couldn't work as a salaried worker. I also thought that if I didn't get a job where I had to touch a camera every day, I would quit photography. My girlfriend, who is a stylist, introduced me to a studio where I worked for 7 or 8 years. I worked there for seven or eight years.

ーWere you scolded there as well?

I was angry, but it was good because I was able to discuss things with other assistants instead of having a one-on-one relationship.

ーI'm glad to hear that.

That's where I finally learned the basics of photography techniques. I learned the fun of portrait photography for fashion magazines. It was a tough job, but I started practicing even on my days off. But I didn't want to end up as an assistant, so I started my own business.

ーThat was in 2015.

Thanks to my technical studies, I no longer had to worry about unnecessary things, and I was able to understand how to take pictures. I also started to understand how to take pictures. How much can I take a picture that looks like me? And who took the picture in the magazine? I became independent because I wanted to take pictures that people would care about.

ーWhat is a picture that is uniquely you?

I don't have a picture in my mind, but I find it interesting to be accidental or unexpected. I do not want to give form to an image, but rather to photograph what I cannot see. I want to cherish that impulse.

ーWhen you take a picture, do you have an impulse at the time of the encounter?

When I take a picture, I don't think about what will happen later. For example, if I see a strange old man, I will take a picture of him, but why do I release the shutter? That is what photography is all about. The act itself is the photograph.

ーDo you think about the difference between releasing the shutter and not releasing the shutter afterwards?

If I feel like it, I do it anyway. But later, there are many times when I think, "This photo is not good," or "I wish I hadn't taken that picture. I often choose not to take a picture when I'm torn by experience.

ーSo you take the picture anyway, but you make your choice in the moment.

For example, if I have two different ways to get home from work, which way should I take today? I am always conscious of such choices, and the choice of which way to go home and which way not to take a picture are all connected. For example, I may have met a strange old man because I chose this path.

ーYour planned photo exhibition "Chushi" is, so to speak, a trail of deeds? What kind of exhibition do you think it will be?

It could be called a trajectory, but it is more like an installation, and I hope it will be in harmony with the place where it will be exhibited.

ーBy the way, how do you think about the difference between showing your work on social networking sites and exhibiting it?

I don't mind if people say the photos are subtle on social media, but it would be sad if people say they are subtle in an exhibition (laughs).

ーWhy did you decide to make a photo book this time?

Mr. Kambayashi (of LVDB Books) asked me to do an exhibition. But when I showed him a few of the photos I was thinking of exhibiting, the response was not very subtle (laughs). (laugh). My motivation was that I thought I would not be satisfied unless I conveyed my ideas in a volume like a photo book (laugh). Also, since it was an exhibition at a bookstore, I thought it would sell well. As is the case with photo books and interviews, there is an aspect of understanding myself as I edit and speak.

ーCould you give us a few words for this exhibition?

The spirit of service is the best I have ever had. My friends made me tote bags and magnets. Thank you, friends! I feel like that.

ーYou have a talent that makes people want to help you.

First of all, I think that I need to make the exhibition interesting to the people around me.

ーI hope that photographer will come to see your work.

No. (laughs) That's okay.